{"id":618,"date":"2008-12-28T22:13:03","date_gmt":"2008-12-29T03:13:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/2008\/12\/reader-round-up-vol-1\/"},"modified":"2017-05-23T00:43:22","modified_gmt":"2017-05-23T05:43:22","slug":"reader-round-up-vol-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/2008\/12\/reader-round-up-vol-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Reader Round-Up (vol 1)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I\u2019ve been receiving a few questions from the readers. (Yes, I actually have readers\u2014other than you.)<\/p>\n<h2>2008-12-28 Update<\/h2>\n<p>I misread the email; the initial version of the I\/Q noise figure discussion was completely wrong.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<h2>I\/Q Noise Figure<\/h2>\n<blockquote><p>What&#8217;s the difference of noise figure between quadrature [downconverter] and single downconverter? In the quadrature downconverter, you have I and Q path, if required Nf=10dB for this quadrature downconverter, what&#8217;s the Nf for the path of I or Q? Can I see the Nf for RF to I path is 7dB, the same thing for Q?<\/p>\n<p>&#8212; K. C.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Unfortunately, the answer is no. The important thing to remember when computing things in dB (and summing them) is whether they add in-phase (constructively) or not. Since the I and Q signals are completely orthogonal, if a 10 dB NF is required for the quadrature downconverter (I + jQ), then 10 dB is required for the each of the I and Q paths.<\/p>\n<p>If, however, we had two paths that summed <em>constructively<\/em>, and we needed a 10 dB overall noise figure, then yes, each path would only need to deliver 10 dB (per path). Unfortunately, I and Q don\u2019t do this constructive summation.<\/p>\n<h2>Loop gain in Cadence ADE<\/h2>\n<blockquote><p>Can u please elaborate on loop gain\/Stablity simulation using Cadence ADE?<\/p>\n<p>&#8212; H. M.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Unfortunately, the answer is no. Or sort of. Sure, I can elaborate, but I can\u2019t do a very good step-by-step job because I don\u2019t have access to Cadence ADE. So, I\u2019m running on my own memory, which (as my friends know) is very dangerous.<\/p>\n<p>However, here\u2019s a rough step-by-step:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Break the loop by inserting an Iprobe element. (Usually, I choose an Iprobe). You usually want to break the loop in a point that\u2019s high-impedance. Typically, I choose the highest impedance output node (transconductor) looking into a compensation capacitor. So, the Iprobe would measure current going from the transconductor into its compensation capacitor.<\/li>\n<li>Start ADE (Tools \u2013&gt; Analog Environment). If it\u2019s not already set in the ADE window, select Setup (?) \u2013&gt; Simulator\/Directory\/Host and select spectre.<\/li>\n<li>Select Setup \u2013&gt; Analysis and select <strong>stb<\/strong> (stability). You\u2019ll need to select start and stop frequencies. There\u2019s also a button to select the loop gain element (Iprobe) that you\u2019re using to break the loop. (You can have multiple Iprobes in a single schematic, for each loop you want to analyze.)<\/li>\n<li>After you run it, you can choose Outputs \u2013&gt; Plot \u2013&gt; Loop Gain (?) or something like that to see amplitude and phase vs frequency. You can also choose the loopgain result from the results browser and do a direct <span style=\"font-family: Courier;\">phaseMargin()<\/span> measurement on it, which will pick the phase margin. (Something like <span style=\"font-family: Courier;\">phaseMargin(-getData(\u2018loopgain\u2019 ?result \u2018stb\u2019))<\/span> \u2013 but I\u2019m typing from memory.)<\/li>\n<li>Keep in mind that Cadence returns the exact loop gain, which is (or should be) 180 degrees at dc. However, the <span style=\"font-family: Courier;\">phaseMargin()<\/span> function expects the loop gain to be 0 degrees at dc and then go to 180 (unstable) at some point later. So, you have to invert the result when using <span style=\"font-family: Courier;\">phaseMargin()<\/span>.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>The stability analysis, I believe, uses the <a title=\"Spectrum Soft Tutorial '97: Loop Gain\" href=\"http:\/\/www.spectrum-soft.com\/news\/spring97\/loopgain.shtm\" target=\"_blank\">Middlebrook method<\/a>,which really runs two ac analyses and combines the results to produce the return ratio. Most other circuit simulators (HSPICE RF) have a similar capability. If your simulator doesn\u2019t, it is possible to get the equivalent by manually running the two analyses.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Answers question in I\/Q Noise figure, and on how to do stability in Cadence ADE.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[33,128,126,127,125,79],"class_list":["post-618","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-analog-pro","tag-cadence","tag-downconverter","tag-noise-figure","tag-quadrature","tag-spectre","tag-stability"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/poCEy-9Y","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/618","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=618"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/618\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1076,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/618\/revisions\/1076"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=618"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=618"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.circuitdesign.info\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=618"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}